E.39 My Favorite Episode Where We Talk About Suicide and Mental Health With Crystal Partney

I cried during this episode and I cried listening to it again. This is by far my most touching episode in Season 3.
In this episode, I talk with Crystal Partney,  an author, speaker, suicide grief coach and founder of Scattering Hope and Owl & Thistle.  After losing her sister, the day before her birthday, from suicide, Crystal is scattering hope to those who need it through her work, as well as the upcoming "You Are Loved" podcast.  We discuss the stigma of suicide,  what we can do to lift that stigma, the hard conversations we must have, as well as other resources to use.
You can reach Crystal her websites: www.scatteringhope.com & www.owlandthistle.com
You can also follow her on Instagram  here and here
You can  also follow her on Facebook at Scattering Hope and Owl & Thistle

Transcript

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Steve Bisson: 0:01

Hi and welcome to finding your way through therapy. I am your host, Steve Bisson. I'm an author and mental health counselor. Are you curious about therapy? Do you feel there is a lot of mystery about there? Do you wonder what your therapist is doing and why? The goal of this podcast is to make therapy and psychology accessible to all by using real language and straight to the point discussions. This podcast wants to remind you to take care of your mental health, just like you would your physical health. therapy should not be intimidating. It should be a great way to better help. I will demystify what happens in counseling, discuss topics related to mental health and discussions you can have what your thoughts, I also want to introduce psychology in everyday life. As I feel most of our lives are enmeshed in psychology. I want to introduce the subtle and not so subtle way psychology plays a factor in our lives. It will be my own mix of thoughts as well as special guests. So join me on this discovery of therapy and psychology. Hi, and welcome to Episode 39, which is my favorite episode of the season. As I said before, it was hard to make a choice, but I had to make a choice. And I decided on Crystal Partney. Crystal talks about suicide something that no one really talks about because it is a taboo subject, she talks about the loss of her sister to suicide, which is again a taboo subject and she opens up in such a great way and talks about her mission that is so important to me and to her obviously. So I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Crystal partner is an author, speaker and suicide grief coach and founder of scattering hope and Owl and Tissell. She's also the host of the upcoming you are loved podcasts after losing her sister. On the day before her birthday from suicide crystal is hoping to continue to open the dialogue in regards to suicide and mental health in general. And I really hope that it goes well I actually a side story. I met Crystal online on one of those, you know, Zoom meetings on something else. And then we met in San Diego by accident at a conference that we were both attending. And I really have enjoyed talking to Crystal during that time. And I'm hoping that that shows up in the interview. So here is the interview with crystal. Hi, and welcome to episode 34 of finding your way through therapy. You know it's interesting you meet people differently throughout your your career and your life. And I met crystal online for the first time when we were going through a podcast kind of like thing with Steve Olsher. And then we went to a I guess it was more of a get together. I don't know what to call it. But to get more information on how to get a podcast going. And we met in San Diego also for the first time face to face. And I just love crystal story. I just enjoyed it so much. So I wanted to invite crystal to my podcast. So Crystal Partney. Welcome. Thank you, Crystal, I don't want to share too much with the audience what I what I know about why I find it so interesting. So maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself at this point.

Crystal Partney: 3:08

Sure. So my story really began the day before my birthday. In 2019. I received a phone call from my mother that morning that my sister Gina had taken her life. And after that, I just I just needed next steps. I didn't know how to begin to heal. I obviously have experienced tremendous loss in my life. But to lose someone to suicide was a whole new ballgame. And I honestly didn't know how to react. I didn't know how to process it. And it was such a shock. Not just to me, but to my whole family in general. And that's that's really where my story begins. What's your sister's name? Gina?

Steve Bisson: 4:01

And I'm very sorry for your loss. Thank you. You know, it's it one of the hardest things to do is to figure out suicide. It's such a thing that's very difficult to understand for so many people. Obviously very shocking to lose your sister. Was she younger, older? Yeah, she was my oldest sister. And kind of like losing that older sister and then having right before your birthday. Right? Is just how did you feel that day? I mean, how how do you process that? How did this so difficult for so many people?

Crystal Partney: 4:36

It wasn't easy, that's for sure. My like I said, Excuse me when my mom called me. I was expecting her to you know, just ask me about my day asked me about how you know what I was planning for my birthday the next day. So to have her call wasn't anything unusual? Because we talked on the phone On practically every day, so for her to call was nothing new. But as soon as I pick up the phone, I knew that something was terribly wrong. Because I could just hear it in her voice. She didn't even have to say anything, I could just, I could just feel it. And that day was just a complete whirlwind. My little girl was three. At that time, her birthday is the end of January. And so I was then faced with a difficult decision. How do I tell my three year old that her aunt Gina has died? Let alone? How do I explain to a three year old about suicide? And what do I disclose? And how do I have that conversation with her because she's so little. And I felt like me and my husband handled it really well. And to be like, fully transparent, we were just open. I didn't go into details. But it was just a beautiful moment that I shared, but with me and my daughter, and if you'd like I'll share it with you. But he's doing it. Yeah. So it was several days after my sister's passing. And I wrestled with the idea, as you can imagine, of telling her Okay, what do I share? How do I share it? And she knew something was. And that's the beautiful thing about having kids that age, is they're very much aware, they're very attuned to their surroundings. They know something has gone terribly wrong. They just don't know what. So I was in the bathroom and my little girl came in and she goes, Mommy, why? Crying? You've been crying a lot. Why? And so without, you know, talking to my husband first, but I, you know, Anna verbally said, Hey, we need to say something to her. So I just took that moment and said, Honey, I've been crying because, you know, Aunt Gina has died. And she looked at me and she goes, why? And I said, Well, honey, I don't know why. I said she was just really sad. And then it's, it's so interesting, because she then looked at me and she started to smile. And I said to her, literally, honey, why are you smiling? And she goes, Well, does that mean she's with Grandpa Lenny? And that's my dad. And she never got the opportunity to meet my dad. But because because he passed away before she was born, but we talk about him all the time. And so she goes as does that mean, she is with Grandpa Annie? And I said, Yes, honey. And she says, okay, and she ran out of the bathroom. And it was so it was kind of comical, because it was like, Oh, that went better than I expected. Not that I could plan for these things, but but it was like, Oh, she handled that far better than I anticipated. And for her, that's all she needed. It was just so much comfort and peace to me at that moment. That it was like, oh, okay, so she doesn't need to know the details. She just needs to know that she's in good company, that she's with my dad and other loved ones that have passed on. And that's enough for her. And that should be enough for me. And of course, like we're both all of us are tremendously sad. But to have it be vocalize for my three year old that was like, oh, okay, I get it, I get it. And it was beautiful.

Steve Bisson: 9:02

You know, I have a tear in my eye just listening to your story. And it's a little bit of the stuff that I think is so important for so many people having some sort of spiritual life, whatever that is. And again, you know, whether it's, you know, with your father, or whatever spiritual life people believe in, which is fine. I always tell people how important spiritual life is to your own mental health and how to deal with difficulties because if you not having a spiritual life is probably the most difficult thing to not have when you're going through a whole lot. I know that we're going to be shifting a little bit here, but you talked about how your daughter dealt with it. And you did brilliant as a parent, I gotta tell you.

Crystal Partney: 9:44

Thanks that was planned. No, not really.

Steve Bisson: 9:48

You read that you read the book on it. I'm assuming, of course. That the book that came out, you know, when she was born, it was a manual and all

Crystal Partney: 9:58

Right, exactly. That manual The Fabulous by the way,

Steve Bisson: 10:01

yes. If I can get my hands on it, please let me know. But I wonder how also for you as you lose your sister? And how did you deal with all that? Because not only is it hard because you have a young daughter, but it's also dealing with your own loss because it's your sister.

Crystal Partney: 10:20

Yeah. Well, like I have shared just a minute ago, it wasn't easy. I was literally graduating, I was in my senior year of college, about a month away from graduating. So as you can imagine, not that there's any perfect timing to hear this tragedy. But it came at such a time where I was like, Oh, my goodness, okay. Now I'm faced with a decision, do I even graduate, and I really had to sit with that and say, what, what my sister want for me in this moment. And my sister knew, like, the, you know, blood, sweat and tears of just getting to that point where it was like, Okay, I see that I'm graduating in a month. And I had to just ask, and I, honestly, I had to ask her to, and just ask her verbally and say, Do you know what would you want? I know, you would want me to graduate? Is this what you want? And it was a definite yes. Like, I want you to graduate. And then you can work out the details later. And so that's what I did. I was very fortunate to graduate. And it didn't matter how crazy at that point, I just graduated. And I told myself that I was going to take a year off. And I was very fortunate, I didn't have to, like rush out and find a job in the field that I had just graduated, I could really, you know, just take my time and just heal. And so that's what I did. But interestingly enough, you know, we talked about the spiritual aspect of it. After it hit me and we went on a graduation trip to San Diego of all places, actually. And my mom and my husband and daughter, you know, we all celebrate it. And I wanted my mom to come and she did. And we had a fabulous time. And but I gotta be honest, that's really when it hit me that my sister was gone. Because I felt like up until that point, you know, you're just going through the motions, and you're just like, graduating, right? And, you know, turning this paper, do this test, go to work, I'll fill all the DMR. And then, when we were on my trip, it was like, the noise just got stopped. And it was quiet. And that's when it was like, Oh, wow, okay, this is real. This is real, and, and bra to and not again, just not just for me, but for my whole family, my mom. And it was, it was extremely difficult. And I want to always tell people that that first year, you've got to be able to ebb and flow. You can't go at the pace that you're going at before. And you can't continuously like beat yourself up over what has happened, you know, because it's so easy to get in your head and be like, well, I could have done this, I should have done this. And you really have to take a step back and say, I did the best I could with the circumstance. I did the best I could with where I was at. And I have to give myself grace. Because at the end of the day, again, I keep referring back to my sister because I'm constantly asking her like, okay, Gina, I know that you would not want me to keep reminiscing and holding this unattainable. Like standard to myself. I wish she would want me to begin healing whatever that looks like for me and just again, bringing that grace into your life is so key.

Steve Bisson: 14:25

Well, I think that when you go through the grieving process, there's Kubler Ross is stages of grief that everyone knows about. And it's I mean, some people have said it's been debunked. I don't necessarily agree with that. I do believe there's no order to it. I mean, the disbelief, the depression, the anger, the bargaining and the acceptance. They happen in different right and then in waves, and no happen again, over and over. I think until we pass away frankly, because it's you know, you can accept something that doesn't mean the anger is taken care of. I don't think Did the bargaining is taken care of necessarily, we still think about these things, and they ebb and flow. I think that's great advice for the first year, just being able to adapt is, you know, and respecting yourself. I mean, therapists, and a lot of people talk about self care. But being able to be just caring for yourself, I mean, there's a difference between the two, in my opinion, being able to care for yourself and giving yourself a break is so important. So I think that that's where you did really good with the ebb and flow. And I really like the, you know, how it hit you at a different time. We're talking about what a four month period that it hit you?

Crystal Partney: 15:39

Yeah, I would say, you know, definitely within, you know, after graduating, and then after the date, we immediately went on vacation. And it was that that period of vacation and winding down and coming back from the vacation. That's really, I would say, yeah, that's pretty accurate with the four month span. But again, it was a continuum. It wasn't like, Hey, I'm good. But it's interesting, because everybody, everybody's journey is unique in the, in the healing process, and the grieving process, because I have family members that they just immediately went back to work. And it was like, no big deal. But I knew that they were hurting. They just had a different way of showing it. And so again, it's so personal, and there's no right or wrong way. But as long as you begin, because it's so easy to just push it off and be like, Nope, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to, I'm fine. That you know, the classic phrase, I'm fine. Like bullcrap, not fine. But that's okay. If that's the front you want to put up. That's, that's your choice. But I would just encourage anybody that if they're in that situation, and they find themselves wanting to push it off, because it is hard, and it is difficult, and it's going to bring up a wave of emotions to learn to embrace it, rather than resist it. Because in the moments when I did resist it, oh, my goodness, Steve, it came back like tenfold? And can I just say that the least opportune moment, like, Oh, I'm at the grocery store, and I'm like, sobbing in the cereal aisle. Not the best time but hey.

Steve Bisson: 17:39

Yeah, and unfortunately, we don't have any control over that, either. So you know, just a reminder, we're listening to finding your way through therapy. I'm sitting here with Crystal portney base. My name is Stevie. So one of the things that I really I think we related to so many different things off air, obviously, and want to say, you know, having lost my best friend when I was 12, and really not processing it till I was 16. It was a weird situation for me to deal with that 1980s Much different time than today. So obviously, that's giving away my age. Therapy wasn't offered to me, obviously. And that's not because anyone is bad. It wasn't there wasn't the zeitgeist at the times, we didn't really think about that stuff. Did you end up going to counseling going to therapy or anything like that? Yeah,

Crystal Partney: 18:27

absolutely. In fact, that was one of the requests that my mother had was as soon as this tragedy occurred. We, as a family decided, okay, me and my, my other sister decided, okay, now is the time that mom really needs to begin to process this and go to therapy. We had encouraged her to go long before my sisters passing. But when, you know, my, my dad passed away, and we were encouraging her then and for whatever reason, it didn't happen. And then when my sister passed away, it was like, Okay, no, this is the, this is the final straw like, we need you to go. And she very lovingly asked if I would go with her. She said, I'll go but I want you to go with me. And that's fine. I will go. And to be fully transparent, we still go. We still go even to this day. And it's not obviously as frequently as that wasn't the beginning. But I found it tremendously helpful because there was this third party that could speak into our story and speak into the problems that we were having the circumstances. And just in general, and it's interesting, because when I reached out to this, this therapist that was referred to us i i kind of felt like? Well, in my mind, this tragedy has already occurred. So it's too late. And it was just interesting because the therapist was like, no, like, I need you in here next week. Like, they were very adamant. Like, no, I need you in here next week, like, can you come next week? Right? And, and it just kind of threw me off guard. Because in my mind, it was like, well, it was too late, but not understanding. No, it's never too late. And that, you know, having someone to be adamant and saying no, like, now's the perfect time. And let's get started. Let's have you begin that healing process and having therapy as a, again, it's like a tool belt, right? You're having another tool that you can refer to, that is only going to help you. And it's for your benefit. I know that there's such a stigma there, but there really shouldn't be there's, and I don't know why. But I'm yeah,

Steve Bisson: 21:05

my thing that we're still dealing with a whole lot of history, in westernized cultures, and in America, about something bad happened, get your shit together and get back into whatever you're doing. Right. Oh,

Crystal Partney: 21:19

yeah. Do whatever, distract yourself? Yeah, yeah.

Steve Bisson: 21:23

Well, it's called burying it. Come on, let's go. And I think that that's why like, one of the biggest things that bereavement process is so important, in my opinion, is to, you know, as you said, I'm going to say, in a therapeutic way, I think that's just validating where you're at and being okay. I mean, you always feel strange, because, you know, you're, you're like, Okay, I'm kind of feeling blank, but you feel strange. So the bereavement process with a family therapy, or even an individual therapy is really helpful to be validated for how you feel. I don't know how you feel about that.

Crystal Partney: 21:56

Oh, absolutely. Because it's interesting. Because, you know, my, my mom would share something in therapy session, and then the therapist would say, well, is that true? You know, we tend to be like, Oh, yes, this say, but it's pretty comical. It's like, okay, is that true? And it's like, well, yeah, is that true or? Nope. So it's nice to, it's nice to have a family member there to just process everything. And, you know, me and my mom have always been really close. And we were extremely close to my sister and my sister. Alina lived with my mother and in the basement of my mom and dad's home. And so. So to say that they were close was, of course.

Steve Bisson: 22:54

I'm just a big fan of therapy, obviously, as I do that for a living. But I also think that when you go through therapy, did you feel yourself any type of stigma for going to therapy for the loss of your sister, like you said, I think the words were, well, the tragedy already occurred, why go to therapy? Was there a stigma that came in with that for you?

Crystal Partney: 23:13

Oh, absolutely. Because, again, you know, suicide in general holds its own stigma. And then, and then you are, you're trying to, you know, grapple with what has happened, is already occurred. And of course, like, I had to deal with that, and my own regard and just say, like, Crystal, this is for my benefit, this is for your benefit. And but I also realized, too, when I had to share with my daughter, that, you know, and Gina has, has died. I realized in that moment, Steve, that it wasn't just me that I had a three year old, that was looking to me in this very moment. For that whenever she experiences a tragedy in her life, she's going to remember this moment. And she's going to ask yourself, well, how did mom handle it? Was she like a wreck? Was she strong? Was she? Did she ask for help? Did she receive help? That was the key because I gotta be honest, I very struggled with like receiving the help from whether it was my husband or my daughter outside, other family members or friends. That was a struggle for me, but I just realized in that moment that okay, this isn't about just me, but she's gonna remember this and how I processed it. And I'm setting the bar for her, so that whenever she does experience a tragedy, she's gonna refer to this moment and notice I'm saying when not at If

Steve Bisson: 25:01

you don't think it's all over, and you'll never have a tragedy until the end of your life

Crystal Partney: 25:07

wishful thinking, but no. But I

Steve Bisson: 25:10

think that's, that's good. I mean, you said it yourself modeling the behavior so important. And also kind of like saying that this is going to happen again, I think that there's a lot of people who like to think that you know, this one tragedy. And it's not going to be one tragedy, we all have losses. I mean, in life, that's just how it is and knowing how to process it and feeling everything you said, you know, my daughter, did I bury it? Did I deny it? Did I deal with it? Did I go to therapy? Did I talk to her? I think it's not just one of those things. It's all of those things need to be addressed. And I think that therapy really helps with that. Just a final question. What do you think was the most helpful that your therapist did other than say, well, is that true? I mean, is there other things that you felt that the therapist really did? Well, for you?

Crystal Partney: 25:54

Yeah, I would say one of the things that they continue to do is press further, because it's easy for me and for, you know, my mom to, to kind of give like the blanket statement or the story. But then to dig a little bit deeper, and ask more questions was extremely helpful, and is extremely helpful to the therapy process. Because, again, not realizing like, hey, there's, there's some underlining things, that as I'm sharing just different stories, or whatever the case may be, whether it's a conflict, there's always more to it. And so just having the our therapist, you know, press a little bit further, even when it's hard. And just be willing to ask more questions and dive a little deeper. Therapy is

Steve Bisson: 26:59

not necessarily comfortable. If it's too comfortable, it's probably not good. You know, I push my clients regularly, and I always share the story. My former therapist, when I first met her, I did like 15 minutes with her. And she looked at me after 15 minutes, she was like, All right, now that you've said, all your therapists bullshit, are you going to tell me the real truth. And I remember going, Wow, she called me right away on my stuff. And she, she, she gained my absolute respect. And I know that some people, I share that story when people feel uncomfortable about therapy, and they say it's okay to be uncomfortable in therapy. That's what it should be. And maybe that's part of the stigma. But for me, it's like, let's lift the stigma by saying, yeah, it should be uncomfortable, you go to PT, it's not going to be comfortable, you're working back your way to different things. Right. So Mental Health's the same way. Let's shift gears a little bit, because I really want to know more about what are your thoughts? Because you've been through your own therapy, you went through your loss? You know, this is so difficult, especially losing your sister Gina, what would you tell someone after losing a loved one to suicide? What What were your would be your thoughts on

Crystal Partney: 28:05

that? My thoughts are just, there's always hope. I know that, especially for me, I felt alone. And just trying to process it, even though I knew like, mentally, I'm not alone. But there was just this void that was missing. And quite frankly, I don't think we'll ever be filled because she took a piece of my heart. And so but there's always hope, and you don't need a lot of it. You only need a sliver of it. And I know that there are going to be really, really dark days ahead of you. And just know that when you're in those moments, to look for the signs that they're there with you. Because one of the one of the moments that was so profound was it was actually before my sister passed away. It was the Christmas that I shared with my family. After my dad passed away, he passed away in April of 2013. And it was Christmas and there. That was just a really tough year for me. I kind of find that my year of hell. Because I in January, I lost a nephew at 39 weeks gestation. And then I lost my dad in April due to health complications, and then I lost my best friend is December of that year to the same health complications. And I remember that Christmas and this just sitting there, Matt, I was so mad. And I remember yelling and just being like, you guys should be here right now. You should be here. And I was extremely sad. And I gotta say, it was such a, I felt this peace come over me and all is the Whisper only said was crystal Burr here. We're just not in the form that you want us to be in. And it was like, Oh, you're right. I want you to be here physically. But in that moment, I realized they're still here. They're experiencing life with you. Make no mistake of it. They are here. They are with you and ups. They are with you in the downs. And they're not going anywhere. And just it brought me so much peace in that moment. And yes, of course, I was still mad. I was extremely sad. But it was like, Okay, you're right. You're right. I want you here physically. But you're not. But again, you're still here. I just can't see you. But you're experiencing life with me. And I it's kind of interesting, because I always joke. I told my sister I'm like, okay, Gina, you're more than welcome to hang out with me. But I'm kind of boring. And if you're okay with that, then you're more than welcome to stay. So I'm glad I can still you know, give her a laugh and she can give me a laugh.

Steve Bisson: 31:58

I'm pretty sure she doesn't find you're boring. Yeah. I hope not. You know, it's hard when someone, especially with suicides, so hard to understand you had all that loss in 2013. I kind of remind people that we carry everyone's you know, whether you want to call it your heart, your brain, whatever, it doesn't really matter to me. I carry on the ones that I've lost through in my heart, and in spiritual ways, in through everything. So it is maddening. It is sad. It creates fear. There's so many emotions that go with that, and just kind of normalizing that fact. And losing someone to suicide, I wish I had a better explanation for any human being that comes through to my door, or anyone who tells me about it. I don't have an explanation. I don't think anyone has an explanation. And is realizing that all you can do is carry there in your heart, in your soul in your spiritual life. You carry them with you. And I think that's a powerful statement you just made.

Crystal Partney: 33:06

Thank you. Yeah, we all searched for answers. And I know, especially with my sister, there was a letter, but I felt like and I'm sure it's not just me, but my whole family. Even though there were her it's in her words. And this was this was her, you know, reasons. It doesn't make it any better. And so again, just using that constant reminder that they're here. There's nothing that they will say, will bring peace to your spirit, if that makes sense.

Steve Bisson: 33:46

I think that peace all comes from within. I mean, I did not know Gina. But obviously I think that she is in our interview right now. She may not know what other people think that's too woowoo. For them, I don't really care. I think she's right here. She's part of you. She's part of our conversation. I'm happy to share that with the world too. So I'm happy that you're continuing to share her legacy and everything else with that. And we'll definitely get to that too. Why do you feel there's still a stigma around suicide, mental health and all that stuff that's still going on and still prevail and across a lot of different places in this world right

Crystal Partney: 34:22

now? Well, like we had shared earlier, death in general, is hard to process, but then you throw the word suicide in the mix. And it's like, wow, okay. It just adds a whole nother layer and complexity to the situation and, and the loss and how I processed my sister's boss. It was different compared to my dad. And as it should be like, I just want to preface that by saying our relationship and our dynamic so vastly different between both people. And that's okay, that's normal. So why I think there's a sigma is, there's, the only thing that comes to my mind is fear. There's a lot of uncertainty, there's a lot of, well, I got to have all the answers. And if I don't have all the answers, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna look like a fool, rather than embracing that and saying, Well, nobody has all the answers. And that's a good thing. That means you're, you're open, you're willing to, you know, going back and receive the help. And you're willing to say, Hey, I'm not perfect, and I don't know what I'm doing. And so there's a, there's a level of honesty that comes alongside and, and helping break that stigma and saying, you know, I need some help. I need some help. And I gotta be honest, like, even my sister was seeing a therapist, and she was prescribed medication, and then come to find out that she stopped taking the medication, she stopped going to therapy, and, and I remember her vocalizing and saying, like, it's just not working. It's not working. I don't want to spend the money. It's just not working. And I remember telling her I was like, well do not go go find someone else. That's like, yeah, maybe that person is not great. So find someone else. as simplistic as that was, but you also have to be willing to accept the help. Right? You have to be able to say, especially to those people that you love. Yeah, I'm not well, this is going on and, and these things keep coming up. And I really could use some help. And as a family, we were desperately trying to get my sister the help that she needed. And just she was unwilling to receive it. At the end of the day,

Steve Bisson: 37:17

yeah. And I mean, just a reminder, we're listening to finding your way through therapy crystal part needs to be so here. You know what, one of the things that it never really took me a long time, but I know some therapists have struggles with this, you know, I one of my first things I say when I meet clients is, Listen, I'm not everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. The good news is there's a ton of other therapists that you can be referred to. So I, you know, like my style, or what have you, it's okay, there's nothing wrong with that, we'll try to find you someone that may be a better style, better, better fit, whatever the case may be. But I think there's also stigma around that too, because now, I gotta repeat my story. And this and that, well, maybe because you tell your story, you're taking away you know, I'm gonna bore you with neural neurological stuff here. But we have anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 thoughts in a day. And they stay in your head, and they're gonna be all muffled, and all screwed up. And a lot of the moments of aha, in my therapy sessions, are people just saying out loud what they're thinking, then they're like, oh, wow, that makes perfect sense. Oh, wow. Why was I even thinking that or what have you, but it's just sometimes that insight, you need to have that third party, who's only vested in you to listen to you and kind of validate and or just listen to you. So I always encourage therapy for that way. But I think that it's hard sometimes to open up. And like I said, my therapists would have told you the same thing about me. But hey, confidentiality, we can't talk about it. The hardest part for me too, as a therapist, even though I, you know, obviously I've worked with people who've had suicide in their life, I've certainly lost clients to suicide. It's hard to kind of start addressing that, and how do you bring that up? Maybe not even in therapy, but how do you bring that up that anyone? How do you talk about that

Crystal Partney: 39:05

stuff? For me, I, again, I have a lot of stress, but I realized just how important that was, even before my sister passed away. So I'll just share this brief, brief example of how to begin talking about something as sensitive suicide and if people are contemplating suicide. So my sister, she was newly divorced, and her children were in their teenage years and they wanted to only live with their dad, which he doesn't live nearby. He lives about three hours away. And so my sister was a single mom, and she would rarely see The kids and when she would see the kids, you know, typical teenagers, they'd be on their phones and they wouldn't really be present. And I know that was a source of contention for my sister like, we just, and I get it either just like, gosh, I don't understand, like, I just want him to be present, or I want him to do XYZ. And they're not they, they'd rather hang out with their friends. And but I bring that up, because so my sister, she was newly divorced. And we were celebrating Christmas. And I was out Christmas shopping for my family. And I knew my sister was struggling. And I came across this beautiful wooden sign. And as soon as I saw it, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have to get that for GMAT. And so I did. And for those of you that don't know, I come from a very large family. I'm the youngest of eight. And so as you can imagine, there's no way I can buy Christmas gifts for my family members, let alone their spouses and their kids, and anybody would go broke. I'm just saying, but I, you know, I saw this and I was like, Yep, I need anything. That's pretty good. So I got home, and it was just right before Christmas. And I went over to my mom and dad's home, and, and I went downstairs in the basement. And I said, Gina, I got your Christmas gift. And she was like, You got me a Christmas gift. And I was like, Yes, I know, I know, it's our thing. Because, you know, it's not in the budget or whatever. But I got you this because I thought of you as soon as I saw it. And she unwrapped it, and she started to cry. And the sign the wooden sign, what it says on it is fine, you're happy. And I took that moment, and I just looked at her and said, Gina, I don't know what you're going through. And I just wanted to let you know that I see you. I see you, I see the struggles you're going through. And I don't know what it's like to be nearly divorced, and have your kids choose to live three hours away. I don't know what that's like. And I can't even imagine what it's like as a mother to have that decision be placed on you. And, you know, just the notion of, of starting over again and after decades of being married. And I don't know what that's like, but I just wanted to let you know that I see you. And I truly do want you to find her happy. And like I said in that moment, she was crying. And I think that was the realization for me that it's as simple as that. Just simply having the conversation with the people that we care and love about and care about and just saying I see you, I see the struggles you're going through. And even if they're not visually like, I could see the struggles that my sister was going through, and oftentimes they keep it hidden. But just simply having a conversation with them and just say, you know, I we haven't talked in so long. And I just want to check in and see how you're doing and, and you know, tell me how you're doing. Tell me about your day and just begin that conversation. And, and you might have to be blunt and say, I got to ask a very sensitive question. But have you ever thought of taking your life? And if they're like yes, or if they're not, if they're not going to be open? It's fine. But just the fact that you're willing to have that conversation with someone can speak volumes. And especially what I realized in that moment with my sister was, oh my goodness, all it takes is a conversation. And it doesn't have to be difficult. It doesn't even have to be uncomfortable. It can just be as simple as saying that I see you. And I love you.

Steve Bisson: 44:18

And sometimes people who are in that suicidal thought process, they just don't feel loved. They feel alone. One of the things that the biggest thing I learned when I started my career worked on a crisis team is that in fact asking about suicide creates a situation where they're less likely to commit suicide because you brought it up. You know, most people are like, No, you gave him the idea. Now they probably already had the idea. So might as well just put it out there and kind of like be able to have that. That hard conversation. Not an easy thing to do. But you're absolutely right. You got to bring it up.

Crystal Partney: 44:52

Well then it becomes this sort of breath of fresh air like oh, okay, I was like struggling with this all Finally, and the fact that you just came out and said it just asked, like, Oh, okay.

Steve Bisson: 45:09

Right. And you need to ask, I think it's such a difficult thing to do. You know, approaching our loved ones with those thoughts, and those conversations probably shows more care than not bringing it up.

Crystal Partney: 45:25

Right. So, do you

Steve Bisson: 45:28

suggest any other ways of bringing it up to someone just kind of like being as honest if you know, or do you have any other ideas around that?

Crystal Partney: 45:37

Yeah, especially when it comes to like teenagers. I was, you know, thinking about this, and even after experiencing this beautiful home with my sister, and just realizing like, okay, we're just gonna have the conversation. And just even, you know, taking them out to dinner, or whatever it is that you guys like to do together, and just have the conversation and just be willing to say, Have you ever thought about this? And if so, like, just be open. And just the fact that you're willing to have the conversation with them is going to be such a breath of fresh air for them, and for you, because, quite frankly, I didn't realize this until recently. But when I growing up, like talking about suicide, it was, it was kind of uncommon. And maybe it was just because I didn't experience that until I was, you know, around 16. I lost a childhood friend.

Steve Bisson: 46:45

Yeah, for mentioned, stigma was real and continues to be real. So please continue. I'm sorry. I just had, yeah.

Crystal Partney: 46:50

Yeah. And so for me, it was like, Oh, okay. But what I realized recently was that that's not true. Now. Now, you have teenagers, that have lost friends, to suicide, because it is more on the uptick, if you will. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, it becomes even more important that we have these conversations with our teenagers with our children and saying, Hey, I've noticed that you've been really distant lately. Tell me what's up, you know what's going on. And they may or may not open up to you. But again, just having that conversation with them, be willing to have the conversation with them. Because it's so easy to be like, Oh, not my kid. No, my kids good. But it's often the most, you know, the most satis words that you will ever hear is we had no idea. Right. And I think that

Steve Bisson: 48:02

we can vilify social media, or we can celebrate it, I like to cite to do both. But when social media, they do encounter more experiences with people committing suicide or losing their life, I think that giving a little bit of credit for the overall media, whether it's, you know, print radio, TV or on line, where they talk about people dying of suicide, where in the past, it would be that someone died tragically. And the only people who died of suicide were like, I don't know, trying to think of a name. When I grew up was Kurt Cobain. That was the only one they really talked about openly, how he passed away. But now it's kind of like all over the place. And in some ways, social media may have helped kind of lift a little bit of that stigma and be able to talk about it so that teenagers are aware. And then us as parents as people, frankly, I say, parents, but frankly, people and I mean, we need to be able to talk about it.

Crystal Partney: 49:01

Yeah, absolutely. And I liked the idea that you bring up Kurt Cobain, because, again, I just naturally assuming that and remembering Yeah, you're right. I don't recall any other. You know, even if it's a celebrity, but I don't recall ever just having that specific conversation, like this person died by suicide. It was like, oh, okay, because it just wasn't talked about. And, again, there's no right or wrong. It was just how it was. And but now that we're seeing this dramatic uptick, it's we need to start having that conversation and not be not be fearful about it. And yes, it's going to be uncomfortable, but would you rather the alternative?

Steve Bisson: 49:53

No, yeah, exactly. It was You took the words out of my mouth, and it's one of those things that I feel like No matter what you feel about the pandemic, it has created more social isolation in general, and feeling alone. And unfortunately, we've polarized ourselves, you know, you're against blank or you're for blank. I'm just not getting into that. That debate right now. And so I think that because of increased isolation, I think suicide has increased overall. And I think that we need to be able to talk about it. This is not over. We're, even if the pandemic tomorrow, miraculously, was done tomorrow, I still think that we're going to deal with the ramification for years to come.

Crystal Partney: 50:39

And that includes suicidal thoughts.

Steve Bisson: 50:42

Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting, because we've been talking for about an hour already. And we flew by, you know, first of all, I wanted to thank you, because I know you said, you mentioned me in some work that you read written. So I do want to thank you for that. But I think that a lot of people will want to communicate with you and talk about you. So tell me a little bit about how we can reach you and how, you know, how are you presenting in this world right now?

Crystal Partney: 51:10

Thank you. Yeah. And my pleasure, Steve, I'm happy to support you in any way that I can. And, and I know that it'll be reciprocated. But you can find me my social media at scattering help.com. My website or across social media, it's that scattered hope. As well as the sister company that I started in my sister's memory is Owl and the soul. And same thing, Alan xsl.com. And across social media Alad the soul and the goal, the mission behind Alan Fussell is to do exactly what we've been talking about here on the end of our conversation, and that is allowing people the space to have that conversation, but also to let people know in our life, how much they are left.

Steve Bisson: 52:06

Well, I went to your website, and you know, there's a subscription box, I believe, yes. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Crystal Partney: 52:14

Of course. Yeah. So like I was just mentioning both both parties, both companies have their distinct flavor, if you will, the scattered help focuses on helping families heal after losing a loved one to suicide. And the sister company outlet, the soul is focused on suicide prevention, and letting people know how much they're loved. And so each subscription has different products inside that are, of course tailored to whether it's healing after the suicide loss, or allowing people the opportunity to have that conversation with our loved ones and saying, hey, you know, I see you. And I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you. And, and I love you. And just opening up that conversation and having that dialogue. And both subscription boxes, allow someone to do that?

Steve Bisson: 53:19

Well, I think it's a brilliant idea. First of all, when I saw that as a great idea, and I can't thank you enough, you know, not only for today, but for what I consider a good friendship. Since we started knowing each other it's been we've had hard conversations, you know, I wanted to kind of like, share the, when we were in San Diego, we started having a conversation a little bit about your sister, it was a little hard and you have to walk away, which is very much fine. But sometimes you meet people in your life that you know, we're geographically far from each other. I mean, and you meet someone and you just kind of like feel like you know them and you feel really close to them. So I can't thank you enough for what I consider a good friendship so far, and really sharing your story so openly everywhere I've met you. I think it's going to open a lot of minds. So I appreciate that.

Crystal Partney: 54:15

Haha, thank you, Steve. And I really enjoyed our blossoming friendship as well, I I know that the Universe works in magical ways. And it was interesting that you brought up San Diego because I think both of us you know, neither one of us had any idea that we're going to be in San Diego at that same time, let alone be able to meet each other face to face so it was definitely one of those moments where it was like oh my gosh, that's so cool. What a small world that we were able to correspond with each other right before and then unknowingly meet each other face to face in San Diego. It was such a beautiful moment. So thank you.

Steve Bisson: 54:57

It was funny because I'm like I was said In the other table, you were sitting at the other table, and I heard your name. That's crystal, I'm pretty sure. And I gotta write it up. And you're like, yeah, that's Oh, I did we had that connection. It was just an awesome moment that I will cherish for a long time. Because it's always those things that mean the most. I think in life, it's those accidental moments, not the ones who have planned.

Crystal Partney: 55:20

Yes, absolutely. And just like we were talking about throughout this whole conversation is that there's going to be people that you meet that you had no idea that you can help and support down the road. And it's just be open. And I'm so grateful that I got the chance to meet you.

Steve Bisson: 55:42

Well, and I know that you're working on a podcast eventually. I know that dealing with pregnancy and starting a podcast can be sometimes very difficult. But you know, if you ever had one guest on, it will be my pleasure to be on it.

Crystal Partney: 55:55

Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. I'd love to have you.

Steve Bisson: 55:58

So I thank you very much for your time. And we'll I know, we will talk

Crystal Partney: 56:02

soon. I know we will, too. Thank you.

Steve Bisson: 56:06

Well, that concludes episode 39. Thank you so much, Crystal portney. Again, probably one of my favorite episodes talking about very difficult subjects. And she opened up and I can't tell you how important it is to me, me and Krista will be doing some projects together in the near future. And I will keep you updated via my social media as well as my newsletter, so please subscribe as much as you need. Episode 40 will be a returning guest for the fourth time in force season. Started in J ball. He's going to be accompanied by Caitlin de who is also a returning guests. And we're going to talk again about first responders mental health. And hopefully we can even talk about firefighters and EMTs and paramedics. So I hope you'll join us for episode 40 and debut episode of season four. So please join us. Please like, subscribe or follow this podcast on your favorite platform. A glowing review is always helpful. And as a reminder, this podcast is for information, educational, and entertainment purposes. If you're struggling with a mental health or substance abuse issue, please reach out to a professional counselor or therapist for consultation