E.238 Part 1 Inside The Therapy Room: Addiction, Culture, And Trust

The badge asks for everything, then hands you a shift change and a smile. We sat down with returning guest,  licensed clinical social worker Alexis Silva, to dig into the quiet realities behind the uniform: why trust is scarce, why stigma is sticky, and how substance use becomes a steady companion long before it becomes a crisis. Alexis works almost exclusively with first responders, military, and veterans, and brings her own sobriety and family experience to the table. That honesty opens a door many are afraid to touch—because careers are on the line, documentation feels risky, and walking into a room where you don’t have to translate the language of the job can be the difference between shutting down and speaking up.

We break apart common myths: not every struggle is trauma from the job; for many, it starts with childhood adversity, genetics, and family patterns. Alcohol, THC, and benzos promise relief and steal sleep, fueling irritability, poor decisions, and conflict at home. We unpack the tipping point where use shifts from choice to maintenance—when your body drives the next drink—and why matching care to risk matters. Sometimes inpatient comes first, then outpatient therapy and groups, so progress isn’t crushed by daily stress. We also go beyond substances to behavioral addictions like gambling, tracing how the chase hooks into the same adrenaline circuits that make first responders so good under pressure.

Across the hour, we map practical steps you can use today: how to assess risk without shame, how to reset routines every few career years, what honest partner check-ins sound like, and how peer support and culturally competent clinicians reduce fear of being “the problem” at the station. If you’ve wondered whether your coping is helping or hiding, this conversation offers a clear path forward—grounded, direct, and built for people who don’t have time for fluff.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a teammate, and leave a quick review to help other first responders find it. Your story isn’t a liability—it’s a starting point.

If you want to reach Alexa, please go to https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/alexa-silva-chelmsford-ma/1140390

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Sponsor Shoutout
• 2:56 Introducing Guest And Background
• 4:26 Building Trust With First Responders
• 8:44 Cultural Competency In The Firehouse
• 13:05 Beyond Trauma: Family And History
• 17:03 Substance Use In First Responder Culture
• 22:10 Treatment Pathways And Inpatient Needs
• 26:35 Career Stages, Burnout, And Drinking

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to Resilience Development in Action with Steve Bisson. This is the podcast dedicated to first responder mental health, helping police, fire, EMS, dispatchers, and paramedics create better growth environments for themselves and their teams. Let's get started.ai.

SPEAKER_02: 0:37

You heard me talk about it. I'm gonna keep on talking about it because I love it. I've had about a year and a half, 18 months of practice with it, and I still enjoy it. And it saves me time and it saves me energy. Free.ai takes your note, makes a transcript of what you're talking with a client, just press record. And it does either transcript, it does a subjective, and an objective with a letter, if needed, for your client. And for whoever might know that. So for$99 a month, it saves me so much time that it's worthwhile. And if you do it for a whole year, guess what? More importantly, this is what you get off. You are my audience that listened to resignance development. If you do listen to this and you want to use free.ai. A great service. Go to get free.ai, and you will get one of the best services that will save you time and money. And I highly read you. Well, hi everyone, and welcome to episode 238, which is the premier episode of 2026. If you haven't listened to the most downloaded episode of 2025, go back and listen to that episode. But I'm excited today because uh we're hopefully gonna meet uh sometime in the near future. But I've known our guests for about a year now, over a year. And we've bothered each other by text, by voice we've we've talked. She's been on the episode before uh with the other people from the beyond the the badge and beyond. Uh uh behind the badge and beyond, sorry guys. But really, just truly a great human being. I I I got to know her personally, and that's the stuff that I really enjoy because uh she she told me that a lot of stuff about we agree so much on therapy, we agree on so many other things. Uh and I know she works with first responders too, which is even better, but truly just a genuine nice human being. Uh but I'll stop giving her flowers because her head won't fit onto the screen, and we need to see the therapy gorilla in the back. Uh but Alexa, welcome. Alexa Silva, welcome to Resilience Development in Action.

SPEAKER_00: 3:04

Hi, Steve. Thank you so much for having me here. And I'm excited to be here. And it's kind of weird because last time we did this, we were in a group. So here we are. And my anxiety of public speaking will be fun today.

SPEAKER_02: 3:16

So there's no one listening. That's what you got to remember. It's just me and you. There's no one listening right now. Only like, you know, million people later on. I'm kidding. I don't have that much of an ep of uh following just yet.

SPEAKER_00: 3:29

Well, we'll just pretend that you're a figment of my imagination then.

SPEAKER_02: 3:32

Great. That's a great great place to start. Are you safe? Uh yes.

SPEAKER_00: 3:37

I have no idea where I am this morning, but I'm I'm here.

SPEAKER_02: 3:40

Uh well that that's how I feel about it this morning, too. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but but no, I was really excited, truly, everything I just said and more, because we've really done all fantastic work uh with Behind the Badge and Beyond. Uh but more importantly, I want people to get to know you personally. I've had Aaron Sheridan, who is also part of Beyond Behind the Badge and Beyond. Uh, I've had Amanda Rizzoli on, uh again, uh someone from our group. Uh I want you on. I'm hoping to have other members like Richard and Jen and Lisa particularly. I've had Bill on several times. Bill's a good colleague of mine and a business partner. But people may not know who you are. So I've been introducing everyone else but you. So how about you tell a little bit about yourself to our audience?

SPEAKER_00: 4:25

Yeah. So my name is Alexis Silva. I am a licensed independent clinical social worker in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. And I recently, oh gosh, probably like at the end of August, beginning of September, just opened up my own private practice, which has been, yes, it has been, what are the words? I don't even have words this morning for it. Scary yet empowering, exciting. I have definitely had a lot of great help from some friends that I will not mention, cough, cough, you know, people from the behind the badge, especially, you know, people that have been on this podcast. And it's crazy how you have this idea in your head to go into private practice, but then once you actually do it, you still feel like, oh my gosh, is this real right? And there's so much more to it. But the reason that I wanted to start the private practice is really having that sole focus of first responders, military, and veterans in clinical practice. And I ended up not only going into this route clinically for social work, but I am also married to a to a marine veteran and a fire lieutenant. So that I have the big personal side of it. I always feel like when I'm not working, I become the client at home because we have two young kids as well. So I know we'll talk about that later, but also doing couples counseling with first responders. That's an interesting lens. But I actually, sorry, let me back up. I got my bachelor's in psychology, UMass Lowell, and I have a minor in disability studies with that. Then I did my master's in social community psychology. And I'm not sure if that still exists, the master's of social community psychology, that program. My plan was to go do a PhD. I originally wanted to do clinical psychology, but that would have been another seven years. So then I got stuck and I can't do this. That's, you know, would have been another whole program. So I decided to do my master's of social work at Salem State. And that's where it really kind of came together. But with the background, I have worked at the VA, I've worked inpatient, I've worked in residential schools, community, doing children and elder, working on the abuse side, critical incident, trained in CISM as well, but just kind of all over the diverse platforms. But it kept bringing me back to working with first responders and military and veteran and coming from a first responder family too, had a big effect on that. But ultimately the goal was private practice. And here we are.

SPEAKER_02: 6:57

So well, I find it funny because in our group, most of you are like married or from families of first responders. And sometimes I feel like an anomaly because I don't have any of that attachment per se. But it's just funny.

SPEAKER_00: 7:11

I mean, I don't think you always need to have the attachment. I what you do. I mean, with this podcast, and you know, I mean, you you probably have encounters throughout, you know, throughout being a clinician stuff, but you've also been doing this for a long time and you have such good rapport, and you also I think it's just building that rapport, right?

SPEAKER_02: 7:32

I think that's a you know, that's a great place to start because when working with first responders, what what people like we I've mentioned it here before. First of all, cultural competency to work with first responders is essential. If you don't have that experience, don't do it. Not too long ago, I went to sit at a firehouse for a couple of hours just to chit-chat with the people to kind of introduce me as a guy. Hey, if you need help, here I am. Uh and as soon as I started talking about mental health, they shut down. But as soon as we were talking about other stuff but that and you know, uh tones and going off and who's coming in and who's come who's doing what and who's getting working out of paramedics and whatever's on TV. And suddenly I was one of the boys. Uh there's definitely a different culture. Uh and it's not I think that they don't like mental health, I think it's just uh it's the unknown sometimes that happens. Uh and I don't know if you've experienced that, but I think that sometimes people think that what we do is like some sort of voodoo or whatever. And I'm like, no, I don't read minds just yet. I'm working on it, but I can't read minds. And I and I don't know if that happens with you, but I certainly know a lot of people have come in, like, are you analyzing me? Yeah, there's shit to do, man. I don't have time for this.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Well, I I mean, I I think also sometimes being a female too, or I mean, you can't see right now, but I'm like five foot two, right? I'm I'm this, I don't look like I've been always doing this for so long, you know? And I think, first of all, right, take away the first responder piece. I think anyone, especially say if I need to go get therapy, right? Like walking through the door, that is so awkward, right? Because you don't know, is this person right like the God complex, right? Are they analyzing me? Is is everything gonna be in documentation, right? Like, where is this information going? Can I trust this person, right? And are they able to help me? I think those are big things. And when you're working with a first responder military veteran population, there's already this armor rate that has to go up, and that might come from the job, right? And that comes that we become so desensitized to it that it becomes our it's our defense mechanism, right? And that's why it can bleed into our personal life, or right? Sometimes people are like, oh, nothing's wrong with you as a first responder. And it's like, yeah, there's a lot of shit, but I I don't know what to do with all of it, right? So I actually had a phone call with a new person for intake the other day. And once I started to tell them about myself, because they didn't really have a significant background, I could kind of hear that sign release, like, oh, okay, you get it, because they told me that they had seen another clinician in the past and they were telling them about calls, and the clinician just kind of froze and got really uncomfortable. And the person, then the client, right? This first responder felt really uncomfortable and they walked away and they said, I don't know if I can go see someone else because the person I tried to see, right, they couldn't help me. And I felt like very like an out, like what I was doing, right? These calls and like all these things, like it was something bad, right? Or it was so like, I don't want to touch that. And it was really uncomfortable for them. So to create a space where you can come in and you can have humor, right? And you don't have to explain the terminology to me, right? I I can understand that piece, right? And I can jump in and we can start to work on some of the different things, right? Whether it's relationship stuff, right? Alcohol, trauma, right? All these different things. And everyone's different too. I think that's the other thing. Whether it's the public or first responders, they have this perception, right, of what a first responder is in the life, but clinically, even right, every person that comes through that door, even if it's all fire, everyone is still different. So we have to be able to be adaptive to what is that person going through. One person with relationship issues and trauma is different than another person with trauma but alcohol issues, right? All these different things. And one call may not affect someone else. And sometimes it's not the job. Sometimes it's all family stuff. Sometimes it's not family stuff at all. Sometimes it is the call, or sometimes it's just from childhood, right? Everyone's different. So I think knowing how to create that environment and take that weight off their shoulders because that's what they're doing every day. He and she, that's what they're doing every day on the job and at home.

SPEAKER_02: 11:34

I think that you bring many, many excellent points. One of my favorite ones that you talked about is that it's not always about, you know, trauma. It could be the family, it could be different things in regards to their past. I mean, how often have you seen a I don't know, I do the Aces with all my first responder folks? How many times is it seven, eight, nine out of ten that's like kind of like yes, yes, yes. I know I've I've experienced that. But one of the things you talked about that I'm really interested in, it's been a while since I talked about it in the podcast. Uh but to me, substance abuse is one of the ways I started in the first responder world. I've done it many ways, but when I worked at Pearl, I was the substance abuse coordinator, not for the staff, although that worked out a little bit that way, uh, but with the clients. And I think that the substance use issue and other behavioral addictions uh are prevalent in the uh first responder world, but it's not always talked about. I know that you you've worked with the substance abuse people, you've worked also with the couple stuff. I'd like to go back to a couple of stuff a little later on, uh, but with the substance use stuff, what's your experience about the openness about these issues, particularly right now? And we're in a state in Massachusetts where you can smoke weed, but as a cop, if you have THC in your assistant that could cut or a firefighter, you can lose your job essentially. What's your experience so far, like with the substance use world, particularly with the first responders?

SPEAKER_00: 12:59

Well, I I think that's a really interesting point that you make about the Massachusetts, right? Oh, that's another thing too. First responders walking through the door, and if they actually share that information, right? Because no matter what, is it gonna get back to the job, right? Is it gonna the documentation, all that? But I mean, that's the other thing is you see a spectrum, right? Some people now, I mean, whether they're first responders or not, people are using THC, right? Even like gummies to help like with sleep, right? Anxiety, and because sometimes and SSRIs, right, all that, they don't want to touch it or they have a bad experience. But I think it's on paper, like with the law and everything, I think that's great. But again, first responders have to be very careful. I I think it's hard to mix in with first responders too, depending on what they're going through, too. Because you take someone that is not first responder, right? And maybe they can sit at home and be able to, you know, take THC and drink, but put it with someone that has a first responder background and everything else going on, right? With like the sleep issues and the work stress and their body might not react the same way. And then also, why do we use that, right? We're using it sometimes to cope, right? It's not even just something for sleep and anxiety. And then it becomes, oh, this is really nice, right? I don't know how to use anything else. And then sometimes it can leak into the job, it can leak in the personal life. So I know there is a lot of studies though on different types of substances, right, that we're using for trauma and treatment. So it's it's a hard line, but I think what I see a lot of is people coming in where it's it's past that point, right? Usually it's alcohol and sometimes, you know, other definitely other substances, right? Because at first you're not using these substances as it, you're you don't expect to walk through the door using these substances and being like, I need I'm I can't handle it, right? I need to be an inpatient, right? Or it's breaking my family, or it took my it took me away from my job, right? And often sometimes that's why first responders, right? And DUIs, right? It can be very more common than we know.

SPEAKER_02: 15:02

Right. Well, there's a lot of not mentioned, right? You know, number two, I I think that you know, there's uh psychosilocybin that's being used, MDMA, to treat some of the trauma stuff. I think that go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 15:18

Oh no, no, go ahead. I was listening. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 15:20

No, no, no worries.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

Um we keep hitting No, it's really interesting that you say that because this is becoming a whole new wave of some of the treatments, right, with different substances, but we still have that issue of addiction and first responders. And I actually, this is another added layer, and this is something we can talk about another day or podcast, but even gambling, we're seeing that I said it right, all these things. It's just it's even like depending on if we're looking at it from the job perspective, right? But it's the adrenaline rush, right? And sometimes we can use these things to quiet our minds. So I'm I tend to look at it more sometimes as people coming in, right, and trying to work on the substance use disorder, right? Things like that, versus us being able to start somewhere else at looking at the substances as a treatment.

unknown: 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 16:09

Well, I think that with the alcohol, I've had a few experiences with people like, you know, two almost two years in going, by the way, I have an alcohol problem. And some of them have said, Why didn't you ask me? It's like, because I don't ask 400 questions, I'm not paid for that shit. You're supposed to be coming here for help and be open about it. That's one of the things that I I think we need to talk about a little bit. But more importantly, it's like I like to me, like you use it as a coping mechanism, and now you're ashamed. Maybe you did it recreationally at first or you had a good time or whatever. You know, I I know a little bit about that personally because I cannot have more than one drink, probably per month. Because if I have more than that, it's usually not a good new, it's not good news for most people around me, including myself. Uh, but having that knowledge and being a therapist, oh, that's lovey dovey. That's the warm fucking blanket bullshit, right? But when you're a first responder, particularly in the police and fire, talking about people that you can't handle your liquor, that's a whole different ballgame. I mean, that's my experience.

SPEAKER_00: 17:08

Well, it's funny that you mentioned that. I have not had a drink. Um, February 12th, 2026 will be six years. Yeah. And a big reason of, yeah, it's I feel like, oh, that was even around like COVID. Yeah, but I I just made the decision years ago to stop drinking. I I think I could tell early on, right? And as many of us do, right? As we're in our 20s and 30s, this is sometimes not good in terms of a coping mechanism, right? And then like my own health and like just sensitivities to even like alcohol, right? It's, I mean, and making that choice though to not drink and has been huge for me and my health. But I I do share this information often when I am working with first responders, even at the intake, because I think it helps them have that connection of when they are going through anything with any kind of substance. So, like, oh, okay, I this is another factor where I'm not going to be on edge, right? Or maybe this clinician understands it, right? Or be being able to have some of those other tools to help them be able to work on some of these issues, right? Because the biggest thing that we forget is that not only being a first first responder with the job, right? Of the broken sleep, all the other issues that come with it, but throw in alcohol, right? So that already worsens the sleep and the PTSD symptoms. It increases your irritability, it increases conflict at home, right? And impairs decision making, all these things on top of already the baseline of doing the job. And one of the things that I make very clear though, because sometimes I do have people coming in that will say, you know, I have, I'm struggling with drinking and I want to reach out for therapy. And I sometimes have to clinically say, it, depending on what, right, when we do the risk assessment of the of what level they're at, they have to go to inpatient first. And then we tear down, right? Because I've had many cases where people will come in and say, okay, I need to work on my drinking. They do, you know, a few sessions of therapy and it it gets even worse. And I always have to work with that when we're doing with peer support, right? And referrals, that sometimes we need to look at this for inpatient first and then outpatient, right? And then looking at the outpatient stuff, whether it's outpatient therapy or groups, because imagine, right, you're going to therapy once a week to work on your substance use, but then you're also still have that first responder job and all the stressors at home. And every little thing that stresses you out on top of that is going to increase the substance use disorder or whatever you're using as a coping mechanism that's negative with that substance, right? And and you're only you're only with me for what, an hour once a week and everything else outside session. And so that's why you're just piling it on and it really takes away from the work. And I always I'm seeing it so much more. And again, how much of this is I see it in stages of right when we're first on the job five years on and then 10 years on, right? It's we have to re pivot actually every five. Years and the way that I look at it because someone on the job, for example, fire, right? A firefighter, when they get on five years, right? This is awesome. Like I'm doing the training, I'm young, but getting into the culture. But then when you're 50, right, 45, 50, it's different, right? You're exhausted. Like you're you're going through the thick of it potentially at home. And maybe you're not a lieutenant, right? Or a captain. You're you're you're a firefighter because you're happy, but your body slows down, right? And then metabolism, and then you get desensitized. I mean, that's that's 20 years. So what are we going to use? Sometimes alcohol. And we hide it, right? Because if anyone finds out that you're that you can't handle it, then you have that stigma and you're you've been on the job for so long and you tell yourself that you are fine, right? And you keep going because that's what we tell ourselves in this role in this job sometimes. And alcohol is that warm friend sometimes, but it it's hard. I think being able to acknowledge when alcohol is a negative coping skill versus what am I looking for here? It's hard to acknowledge when we're using it as a negative coping skill versus I I can just put it, you know, and not acknowledge it. Because, for example, well, sorry to cut you. I I had someone that actually said to me, you know, I was running late because my coworker, you know, dropped and was throwing up, throwing up blood on a call and they had to go to the hospital, and they were told, you know, I only have like a day left to live.

SPEAKER_02: 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:28

And you're kind of right, that that's where I go from like zero to sixty. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02: 21:32

Well, and I think that what I was gonna say is what happens a lot with different departments, fire police, parole probation, everyone. Well, you know, Alexa can handle her liquor, so obviously I can too. And I gotta be able to do it because Alexa's doing it or whatever, and then there's always this comparison game that's never gonna fucking win anything. Uh I get really annoyed with people with the comparison game because they always do this. Well, they can do this, so I can, or they went to the same cult twice that really pissed them off or hurt them, or now they're having PTSD. Uh so I gotta learn how to handle it, and they didn't have PTSD, and I do. Uh the comparison game always kills you. And for me, the other part that you really mentioned, which is so important, is when I ask questions about substance use, uh I gauged a room where most of those guys genuinely want to know about your past. And I've uh been very open about my stories about uh having you know excessive drinking in my teens, and then for a long time in my early adulthood. And that really makes them oh, you can understand that stuff, and that really helps. So I think telling them is very important. I don't think we need to I don't think we should skip one important thing. You talk about gambling and behavioral addiction. I think that what I was gonna say is that when you you got the behavioral stuff, you got the sex stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 22:49

That's huge, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 22:50

And the gambling. Uh I had a guy tell me that he starts gambling with the soccer games in England at seven o'clock in the morning on Saturdays or Sundays, and they finish with ping pong in North Korea or South Korea or whatever. And I'm like, You got an issue. Oh no, no, it's just for fun. I'm like, well, if that you're not doing the stuff you're supposed to do every day, or you're like ignoring your family because you know you need to know who won the ping pong game in Korea at two o'clock in the morning. There's a lot of issues there.

SPEAKER_00: 23:17

Um Yeah, there's there's this awesome podcast. I have to send it to you. I was listening to it. There was this guy out in California, and he was a financial broker, whatever. He actually had accounts for celebrities, including Alanis Morset. And he had gambling in his family addiction. And one day I think he got into it. It was actually, it's funny, it was like his son's or daughter's soccer coach came up and was like, Hey, do you want to make a bet? And this guy ended up making like$50,000 bets each day, and he stole four million dollars from Alanis Morset and other people. And he ended up getting into cocaine and like cheating and all these things, and he went to federal prison.

unknown: 23:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 23:56

And he talks about it. And what happened is he actually got sober, and now he is a ladack and he helps other people and he talks about his journey and have to send that to you. But he talks about how you get hooked with the gambling, right? And how it's a gateway for all these other things, right? And just hiding it and how it broke his whole, you know, personal life. And because he was so afraid, he did not want anyone to know. He just kept stacking, stacking, right? And the feelings of guilt and shame, right? That was more than actual what was going on in real time with the gambling. And he talks about, you know, he's like, I don't have any money, but I've never been happier and sober. And he's a lay-deck and working on this. And it's fascinating. It's really interesting talking and hearing about people who go through these things right on the other end of it, and they can tell their story. And one of the reasons, you know, I think alcoholism definitely runs in my family genetically. That's another thing, too. Genetically, we forget about. And you brought up a really good point about the comparison game. And it's so hard, right? Because I'm I'm picturing someone right now, right? That first responder that's kind of like sweating, right? When when we are hiding the alcohol, because at the end of the day, right, we just want to be like everyone else. And alcohol is it's a social thing, right? It's a nice release. It's being part of like the boys-girls club, right? It's part of that. I mean, right, we go back like 30 years. You know, what did first responders do? How do they connect, right? It's in the back room drinking.

SPEAKER_02: 25:15

Many beers and many fire departments that I know of, anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 25:18

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think old school, this was way back in the what? Like firefighters first started. Like you could have a beer on the job, right? But yeah, but you never want to be that person that has something wrong with them compared to the person next to you. And sometimes I hate people have people come in and they're like, I'm so mad because I can't figure out why I have this issue with alcohol, because I don't have this level of PTSD, right? That my coworker has, or that people say, right? They're like, everything's good at home, but it's still something along the way. And I think that's really hard when people still have to come to the awareness of what their relationship with alcohol or any kind of addiction is.

SPEAKER_02: 25:55

Well, I talk about addiction really easily for me. I mean, I don't know how you do it, but I tell people like, no, the first few ones are pretty much a choice, whether alcohol, whatever drug you're thinking about. After you hit four or five, no longer a choice, a maintenance program. Yeah. Because if you don't drink as much, then you're gonna start shaking, or you're gonna have sweats, or you're gonna have it, you're not gonna be able to handle it. It'll get rid of your headache if you drink right away. That's the hair of the dog, right? Uh and it with your opioids in particular, that's really one of the things. And benzos lose their effectiveness within 14 to 28 days if you take them regularly. Uh and so you start doing it more, but like you're shameful, you know that this is wrong, uh, and you don't want to talk about it. And how come Alexa has been able to stop drinking and I'm still having a drink once a month? Oh my god, I should never tell Alexa anything. Well, no, we're different, we're different people, we have different motivations. We got to be able to be open about that shit. Uh but I think that it happens so many times, and the gambling is the same thing. We talked about stacking. That's uh that's one of the biggest problems. I was once with a friend of mine, this is years ago while I was drinking heavily. Uh he went ten thousand dollars at the casino and I was so happy and he's like, Yeah, that won't touch the fifty-five thousand I'm in debt for gambling. And I remember going, Okay, I'm not coming to the casino anymore. And I go once in a while. Now I'm not gonna lie, but I'm not I bring a hundred bucks, and then my hundred bucks gone, it's gone. I just don't deal with it. But yeah, I think that that's what it is, is we chase, we chase, and we become less of a choice as we go along. And I think that that's where people get the shame, but I think that's the stigma we got to break because your your 14 drink on your 26th month of every day, it's no longer a choice. You just need it so that you're you feel okay and that your liver doesn't fucking explode.

SPEAKER_00: 27:41

Yep. And and you bring up the good point, right? You forget about the physical dependence and what your body's doing and how it's breaking down, right? It's not just the emotional stuff. And again, it's looking at even like what age are we doing these things, right? When you're 20 versus like 45 on the job, it's different, right? Or even starting out at 20 years old, um, or even feeling like you need to compete with other people, right? And that's why I think this is like another whole conversation. This kind of goes into first responders and the personal life at home and relationships, but making sure that you have your self-care and your limit of what are my boundaries at work versus like what I bring home, right? And how I deal with all this stuff. Because sometimes, right, we can wrap it up all into one ball and then it just explodes.

SPEAKER_01: 28:25

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